Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Debate 2 Did you or didn't you Leisa ?

Mr Matthews is beginning not to trust Ms Donlan. He wishes to check up on something he has been told previously.

PFL
Adjudicator
---------------------------------------------

fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:34 PM

subject Please provide evidence Leisa 3
mailed-bygmail.com

Dear Leisa,

In your email of 15 August 2008 you said:

fromLeisa Donlan <
ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
dateFri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM
subjectRE: I don't quite understand

Dear Don

This website (
www.stainlessrainwatertanks.com) is notorious in the industry for its inaccuracies and misleading statements. We have many several formal complaints to them and to both the Office of Fair Trading and ACCC.

Regards
Leisa Donlan, FSAE

Please provide me copies of complaints you claim to have sent to Office of Fair Trading and ACCC.

I will give you till end of business Friday 30 January to respond.

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr Matthews

I have already responded several times that this correspondence is confidential and I cannot supply you with a copy.

Regards
Leisa Donlan,
FSAE

---------------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Fri, Feb 6, 2009

subject Members are asking

Leisa,

Members of APTCIG are asking why your letters of complaint (and replies) you claim to have sent to ACCC and OFT regarding John Rosenfelder's 'notorious' website need to be kept 'confidential'. Is there something to hide? Or did you not really make any complaints?........ If you, did, please convince us. At present we don't believe you.

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"


----------------------------------------------
No response as at 28 Feb (PFL)
-----------------------------------------------


from Don Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Wed, Feb 25, 2009

subject Debate 2 Did you or didn't you Leisa ?

From Don Matthews APTCIG
To: Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA

Leisa, Before we can move on and make any progress I need to know if you are telling me the truth. At the moment I don't think you are.

You claim to have made complaints to ACCC and OFT over false claims being made by John Rosenfelder on his website. I don't believe you did make any complaints. I have asked to see copies of these complaints and responses from ACCC and OFT. You have countered with "this correspondence is confidential and I cannot supply you with a copy".

I gave you an opportunity to explain to me and my APTCIG members why this information needed to be kept confidential but you have not responded. This has strenghthened our view that you are hiding something.

There are now only two options left:

1. Provide us with a copy of complaints to ACCC and OFT, and their responses

or

2. Admit that no complaints were made.

The sooner we can sort this out the sooner we can move on.

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"

PS This email has been posted on the weblog Debate 2 post. A gathering audience is awaiting your response.
---------------------------------------------



Debate 1 Please provide the evidence Leisa

We are gathered here to witness a debate between Mr Don Matthews (leader APTCIG) and Ms Leisa Donlan (CEO ARMA). Mr Matthews is asking Ms Donlan for evidence and proof of any false statements he has made. Any statements made by both debaters can be verified by going down to the ARMA Leisa Donlan post (Aug 08). Please feel free to make any comments as we go.

PFL
Adjudicator
------------------------------------------------------

fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateWed, Jan 28, 2009 at 2:33

subject Please provide evidence Leisa 1mailed-bygmail.com

Leisa,

In your email of 22 January 2009 you made the statement:

"It is our contention you have made and published false statements"

Please identify any specific statements I have made or published and provide me with evidence which proves they are incorrect .

I will give you till end of business Friday 30 January to respond.

Don Matthews
APTCIGAustralian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"
-----------------------------------------------------------


No response as at 5 March
-----------------------------------------------------------

Monday, January 26, 2009

SHOULD I REMOVE MY WEBLOG?

From: Don Matthews
To: The people of Australia


Should I remove my weblog
http://thegreataustralianpolytankdebate.blogspot.com/?


I have uncovered an industry misleading the public on recycling poly rainwater tanks. ("Can poly tanks be recycled? Yes, they can be completely recycled" says Leisa Donlan CEO of ARMA, on the industry's website). The industry refuses to admit there is a problem and don't want to talk about it. Industry leaders have begun blocking my investigations and Ms Donlan is trying to stop it becoming public.

I have a degree in chemistry, a career in chemistry education and a knowledge of the chemistry of plastics . I have explained many times that sunlight breaks down plastic making it brittle and unable to be remoulded and recycled. They don't want to know. If a breakthrough has occurred since I last touched base with chemistry and a technology now exists to reverse the degradation process please someone, let me know.

I also have confirmation from a major polytank manufacturer that UV degraded plastic cannot be recycled (see 'THE DEBATING FLOOR' post).

Why does Ms Donlan not want this issue raised in public? Because she and her association, ARMA (Association of Rotomoulders Australia) have been telling the Australian public that poly tanks can be recycled. It eases their conscience and makes us all feel environmentally comfortable about poly tanks. As long as people think things are OK, that's what counts.

That an industry can take advantage of an innocent public wanting to do the right thing by the environment for the sake sales and the dollar is a disgrace. The consequence and implications of this becoming public are obvious.

So.

What to you think? Should I remove my weblog? Leave your comment on this post ? post. If you are interested in following progress email me at donmatthews7.gmail.com. I am in the process of organising a national education and awareness campaign and forming the environment action group APTCIG to bring the issue out into the open for public discussion and debate.

-----------------------------------------------

toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>

dateThu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:16 PM
subjectRE: Make your decision Leisa



“WITHOUT PREJUDICE”


Dear Mr Matthews


It is our contention you have made and published false statements that we believe have had and will continue to have a detrimental effect on the industry while they remain in the public arena. It is our further claim that this has resulted in financial losses to the Association and its member companies through loss of sales. We also believe that your false or edited copies of correspondence to journalists have damaged the reputation of the Association, for which we should be compensated.


The Association requests you remove the following information and content from your website http://thegreataustralianpolytankdebate.blogspot.com/ by close of business on Friday 23rd January, 2009:


Any information regarding our organisation, myself or our staff
Copies of any correspondence between us
Any reference to any of our member companies, their directors or staff
Copies of any correspondence from our member companies
Any claims that “poly” tanks cannot be recycled
And further, that you agree not to author or publish any similar information in the future.



Should you choose not to amend or remove your website by the time listed in our email, the matter will be referred to our lawyers for immediate action to commence. If the website is withdrawn or edited as requested, we will agree not to pursue the matter legally.


Regards


Leisa Donlan, FSAE
Chief Executive Officer
Association of RotationalMoulders Australasia Inc.
PO Box 826, Ipswich Q 4305 AustraliaPhone: +617 3812 1450 Fax: +617 3009 0600Email:
ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com Web: http://www.rotationalmoulding.com/

-------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <
donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <
ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateFri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:38 PM
subjectRe: Make your decision Leisamailed-bygmail.com


From: Don Matthews APTCIG
To: Leisa Donlan CEO ARMA


Leisa,

I am unable to remove the weblog. My hands are tied by the search for truth and honesty. All I can do is remove any information which can be proved incorrect. The people of Autralia will now judge for themselves and decide the outcome.

Sorry,

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
"seeking open and honest answers to open and honest questions"

-----------------------------------------------------------------
fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Wed, Feb 4, 2009
subject Deadline passed
mailed-bygmail.com

Copy to: All APTCIG members

Dear Leisa,

Remember I gave you a deadline for receipt of the information below? You seem to have forgotten or chosen to disregard my friendly 'warning'. If you decide against I will find out in my own way".

Your choice.

Don Matthews APTCIG
"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"

Leisa,
I have requested the following information on several occasions:
1. Name and email address Managing Director EGR Water. I wish to ask some questions.
2. Name and email address Managing Director Ozpoly. I wish to ask some questions.
3. Name and email address Managing Director National Poly Industries. I wish to ask some questions.
4 Names of ARMA board members. I wish to ask some questions
5. . Copies of complaints you claim to have sent to ACCC and Office of Fair Trading regarding John Rosenfelder's 'notorious' website
www.stainlessrainwatertanks.com.

I want to check if you were telling me the truth. Please email requested information.

I will give you until close of business on Fri 30 Jan to make your decision. If you decide against I will find out in my own way.

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group"
seeking open and honest answers to open and honest questions"

---------------------------------------------

toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:22 PM

subjectRE: Deadline passed

Dear Mr Matthews

This matter has now been referred to our lawyers for action as discussed.

Regards

Leisa Donlan, FSAE

Chief Executive Officer

Association of RotationalMoulders Australasia Inc.

-------------------------------------------

fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>

toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
Wed, Feb 4, 2009

subjectRe: Deadline passedmailed-bygmail.com

Leisa,

My response is as follows:

What has been recorded on the weblog is exactly what people have told me of their own free will. Nothing has been edited or changed. If you can prove by providing evidence to me that something I have said on the weblog is false I will gladly change it. To say evidence is confidential without giving me a valid reason is not acceptable. Sorry

I will debate you on this issue and anything else you say to a national audience and let them be the judge. There is no way to stop the Great Australian Poly Tank Debate from going ahead now. The issue must be raised in public for discussion and debate, End of story. Your Cease and Desist will help launch the campaign. Thankyou.

Don Matthews APTCIG

Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group

----------------------------------------------

fromLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>

toDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>
Wed, Feb 4, 2009

subject RE: Deadline passed


Mr Matthews

What we can prove, we will now prove in court:

That you edited emails that were sent to you when you published them (we have copies of all the originals).

That you ignored confidentiality clauses contained in emails and then published them in total or in part (we also have copies of those).

That you were provided with proof of recycling via technical content and even the Internationally recognised standard for plastics recycling and that you chose not to publish any of that information.

That you claim to be an expert with a relevant qualification (but you were in fact a publish servant in the education arena).

That we made an attempt to resolve the situation with you (through providing all the information you requested last week).

And that all of your biased claims therefore have damaged my own reputation and that of the industry (and that both ARMA & myself should receive financial compensation for that).

I would recommend you seek your own legal advice before you continue to correspond with me further.

Regards Leisa Donlan, FSAE

Chief Executive OfficerAssociation of Rotational Moulders Australasia Inc.

---------------------------------------------

I have discussed this with APTCIG members and consulted my 'lawyers'.

They see no problems

--------------------------------------------

fromDon Matthews <donmatthews7@gmail.com>

toLeisa Donlan <ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com>
dateFri, Feb 6, 2009

subjectPeoples Court vs Court of Law

Leisa,

I have sought advice from my 'legal' advisers. Their silence suggests I am OK to continue.

So I am.

You are going to try and prove that you are right and I am wrong in a court of law. You will be spending Association member's money in doing this. I am going to prove that I am right and you are wrong in a Peoples Court. I am going to debate you on the weblog to all Australia. The people of Australia will then have all the facts before them. They will then be the judge and jury and decide the outcome. And it won't cost my members a penny.

Don Matthews APTCIG

Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group

"we're aiming for transparency - and we shoot from the hip"

---------------------------------------------

There has been no response back





Friday, January 9, 2009

VANGLOBE BLOCKS INVESTIGATIONS

Vanglobe blocks investigations into industry poly tank recycling claims

-------------------------------------------------------


Mr Trent Farleigh of the Vanglobe Group has blocked investigations into industry recycling claims by Don Matthews, leader of the newly formed environment group the Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group. Why?

---------------------------------------------------------


From: Don Matthews [mailto:donmatthews7@gmail.com]
8 December 2008
To: Trent Farleigh
Subject: Tony Mercieca

I believe Tony Mercieca no longer works for Vanglobe as technical manager. Do you have a contact email address for him?

Thanks

Don Matthews

---------------------------------------------------------


From Trent.Farleigh@vanglobe.com.au
To donmatthews7@gmail.com
Dec 8, 2008
RE: Tony Mercieca


Hi Don

Your information is right that Tony has left Vanglobe.

Don are you still bagging polyethylene tanks in the market as most of our customers have reported.


Trent Farleigh
National Sales Manager



From Don Matthews
To Trent.Farleigh@vanglobe.com.au
Dec 10, 2008
Re: Tony Mercieca


Dear Trent,

I am pleased you have made contact. I would like to say a few things and ask some questions.

1. Leisa would have informed you that I am conducting a private research project on the recycling UV degraded (spent) tanks, hence my questions to the industry. What began simply out of interest and curiosity has snowballed into a 'can of worms' so it seems. The response of the industry, particularly Leisa Donlan CEO of ARMA has prompted me to investigate this further with some interesting results.

Leisa has probably also told you that I am considering publishing my work. There seems to be quite a deal of interest being shown in it which hopefully will be of benefit to everyone.

2. Could you please give me the name of your new Technical Manager so that I may continue the discussion I was having with your previous Manager. Tony seemed well qualified to help me and hopefully your new replacement will be able to help.

3. Perhaps you could answer the following three questions I am now putting to the industry?

QUESTION 1

Sunlight eventually breaks down plastic making it brittle and lose all its strength. The long-chain polymer molecules which allow plastic to be moulded and give it its strength and rigidity are ruptured by UV light. No amount of added UV stabilizers will prevent the chemical degradation process from occurring. Essentially the plastic disintegrates and loses all its properties. As a result I don't see how it is possible to then remould it into other products. Is the correct?

QUESTION 2

Would I be correct in saying that polyethylene plastic currently being recycled is only clean plastic such as factory scraps, seconds etc and not fully UV degraded (spent) plastic ?

QUESTION 3

If I am not correct (and I am more than happy to be put right) and fully UV degraded plastic is actually being remoulded what evidence is there to support this? What process is being used and what products is the spent plastic being turned into?


Don Matthews

APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
asking questions, recording responses, drawing conclusions




from Don Matthews
to
Trent.Farleigh@vanglobe.com.au
cc Leisa Donlan

Dec 16, 2008 at 4:26 PM
Re: Tony Mercieca



Good Afternoon Trent,

As already mentioned I am conducting a research project into the 'recycling' of UV-degraded poly tanks.

I was in the process of discussing this with your Technical Manager Tony Mercieca when he suddenly stopped responding.

You have informed me that he is no longer working for Vanglobe and I have already asked you for the name and email address of his replacement but you have not obliged.

For the second time, please email me this information. I wish to ask some questions.

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group
asking questions, recording responses, drawing conclusions

------------------------------------------------------

From Trent.Farleigh@vanglobe.com.au
todonmatthews7@gmail.com

cc ldonlan@rotationalmoulding.com

Dec 17, 2008
RE: Tony Mercieca


No

-------------------------------------------------------


From Don Matthews
toTrent.Farleigh@vanglobe.com.au
Dec 17, 2008
Re: Tony Mercieca



Dear Trent,

Is this a wise move?

You are making a deliberate attempt to block the enquiries of a concerned member of the public engaged in a serious research project into industry recycling claims.

You know I am considering publishing my work which eventually will find its way all over Australia. Every response you make is being documented and will be out in the open for public scrutiny.

How you proceed is up to you.

Don Matthews
APTCIG
Australian Poly Tank Concerned Individuals Group

------------------------------------------------------------


There has been no response to this so I am now making my views widely known












JOHN ROSENFELDER

JOHN ROSEFELDER (Stainless Rainwater Tanks Pty Ltd) Brisbane


Currently there is no way to recycle the spent plastic and this may create a real environmental problem when all the plastic tanks will start to fail in the years to come" (http://www.stainlessrainwatertanks.com/. Questions and answers)


The following is an email sent to me 10 July 2008 by John Rosenfelder who manufactures stainless steel tanks and has done a lot of research into various types of tanks which can be found on his website www.stainlessrainwatertanks.com.



Unfortunately your statement that “manufacturers state that tanks are recyclable” cannot be substantiated.

For such a statement to have any value concise information would be required. Example Mr..... from Poly World, in his position as Managing Director declared on the (date) that tanks manufactured from polyethylene after expire of their service life can be recycle in following manner........... with the end product being used as...........

I would welcome if you could supply such information and I change my website accordingly. Any other statement is meaningless and purely a marketing tool

I am in close contact with (name removed) one of the largest poly tank manufacturer in Australia. My question to him regarding recycling is always answered in a very coy and political way. Essentially nobody in this industry would address the issue that poly tanks are actually failing already, many well before there warranty expires. Therefore if nobody acknowledges this problem in the first place, there is no need to discuss recycling!!!!!

I am not a scientist, but my common sense and every day experience tells me that there is a real issue with recycling spent poly. This statement is based on following reasoning:

1)“spent” poly is a product where the polymers, which give poly the elasticity and strength are destroyed by the exposure to UV rays. To the best of my knowledge there is no technology available to reverse this process.

2) We replaced numerous split and cracked poly tanks, and the shells just remain in the field, some for years. Refuse dumps do not accept them ( here in Brisbane anyway). If there would be any value in this piles of twisted plastic, somebody surely would be happy to accept them.

3) The shell of the black poly tank, shown in my website, resting on a vacant block of land about 4km from the Brisbane CBD for the last 4 years. Well within walking distance of some metal recyclers. If there would be any value at all in this heap of plastic, it would have disappeared years ago.

4)If you take a drive through the country side around Brisbane, towards Gatton you see numerous failed tank just laying in the fields, one of them is actually recycled. It has been spilt in halve and is used as a goat house.

5) If you visit Bunnings you will find garden edging made from recycled plastic, but not poly